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Duane_NEPA
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| Posted: Jan 16 2018 at 8:42pm | IP Logged
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Well I got bit from the contaminate transmission issue
and need a rebuild of the trans now. Figured after
over 100k miles I was safe.
So the shop that is rebuilding the trans made a
suggestion. Don't bother replacing the radiator. We'll
just block it off and use the aux cooler that's there.
It'll be good enough and if you want to add another
aux cooler when it's warm no problem.
By doing this you'll never have this problem again.
I considered doing this about 6 months ago and didn't.
Learn from my mistake.
dk
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'07 Frontier KC LE 4X4 Auto 4.0L 1N6AD06W87C44
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lakota
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| Posted: Jan 17 2018 at 1:39pm | IP Logged
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..
Good Idea!.. Don S..
__________________
PLEASE >>> A SIG similar to mine can be VERY HELPFUL to all the members!
'99 4x4 3.3 Frontier Se KC Auto, 48,000 miles
'76 4x4 401 Wagoneer QT
'04 FWD 1.8 Sentra '08 FWD 2.4 Camry LE
Fort Worth
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Rubble
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| Posted: Jan 17 2018 at 5:14pm | IP Logged
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Duane_NEPA wrote:
Well I got bit from the contaminate transmission issue
and need a rebuild of the trans now. Figured after
over 100k miles I was safe.
So the shop that is rebuilding the trans made a
suggestion. Don't bother replacing the radiator. We'll
just block it off and use the aux cooler that's there.
It'll be good enough and if you want to add another
aux cooler when it's warm no problem.
By doing this you'll never have this problem again.
I considered doing this about 6 months ago and didn't.
Learn from my mistake.
dk |
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DK,
The best way is to replace the radiator. Once the Radiator is blocked off,, then you'll need an OBDII scanner that will read the ATF Temperature to check the level at 149F after driveing, going by the direction's in the Service Manual.
With a New Updated Radiator you can check the ATF Level, useing the Cold Range before driveing, once the Coolant Temperature is at Operating Temperature by observing the Instrument Cluster Gauge.
The proper ATF Level is a very narrow range for the Gen II Frontier V6. The ATF Level from the Low to Full mark is only 8 oz. ! When the Fluid level is too low,, the Torque Converter will have slack,, and cause a Jerk on takeoff. If the ATF Level is Too high,, then there is not enough room for expansion,, and will cause the ATF to get too Hot,, and Damage the Tranmission.
Read the Service Manual. It's a Free Down Load,, just Google,, and you can find a source for the Manual. With the Radiator in the Loop ~ Warm the Engine up before Driveing at Idle to Normal operateing temperature by observeing the instrument coolant temperature gauge ~ Then with engine running move the gear selector thru all the gear's ~ Return the Gear Selector to Park ~ With Engine still running check the ATF Dip Stick ~ On my '13 the Level should be at least 1/2 way between the Low and Full Mark useing the Cold Range for the Torque Converter to Function Properly without a Slack/Jerk when too Low. Within 4 oz. is a Real Narrow ATF Level for the Torque Converter to Function Properly, so you have to check the level correctly useing the cold range or by useing an OBDII Scanner that will show the ATF Temperature after Driveing @ 149F useing the Hot Range.
In the Future don't Gamble with Drive Train Warning's. It's just too expensive to gamble with.
Lot's of Misinformation on the WWW as well as from Nissan Service Department's. I'm not a professional Mechanic, but I try to do all of my Routine Service and Preventative Maintenance Myself on all my Machine's and Equipment's. With all the misinformation I got,, it took me a long time to get this figured out. Mine was delivered with a Low ATF Level from the Factory and the Nissan Service Department's were unable to check and diagnose properly. I'm not per say criticizeing the Nissan Service Department's, it's just that they are under a very Strict time constraint and not being trained properly in Diagnosis of the Nissan Automatic Transmission System. I reported this to Nissan Consumer Affair's and they seemed to be Deft. I'm still not Criticizing Nissan, as they have so many Buffer's, that it's hard to get to someone with Authority and Knowledge.
Good Luck with the Repair and in the Future.
__________________
Barney
2013 SV V6 Frontier KC/AT/2WD; Previous 20 yrs ~ '93 I4 Hardbody KC/AT/2WD, Sold.
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Duane_NEPA
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| Posted: Jan 17 2018 at 5:46pm | IP Logged
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Only one problem with all of that. That's not what the
service manual says. Nowhere does the service manual
say that the engine has to be at operating
temperature.
1. Before driving, the A/T fluid level can be checked
at A/T fluid
temperatures of 30° to 50° C (86° to 122° F) using the
“COLD”
range on the A/T fluid level gauge as follows:
a. Park the vehicle on a level surface and set the
parking brake.
b. Start the engine and move the selector lever
through each gear
position. Shift the selector lever into the “P”
position.
c. Check the A/T fluid level with the engine idling.
d. Remove the A/T fluid level gauge and wipe it clean
with a lintfree
paper.
CAUTION:
When wiping the A/T fluid from the A/T fluid level
gauge,
always use a lint-free paper, not a cloth.
e. Re-insert the A/T fluid level gauge into the A/T
fluid charging
pipe until the cap contacts the top of the A/T fluid
charging pipe
as shown.
CAUTION:
To check A/T fluid level, insert the A/T fluid level
gauge until
the cap contacts the top of the A/T fluid charging
pipe, with
the gauge reversed from the normal inserted position.
f. Remove the A/T fluid level gauge and note the A/T
fluid level. If
the A/T fluid level is at low side of range, add A/T
fluid to the
transmission through the A/T fluid charging pipe.
CAUTION:
Do not overfill the transmission with A/T fluid.
g. Install the A/T fluid level gauge and the A/T fluid
level gauge bolt.
2. Warm up the engine and transmission.
3. Check for any A/T fluid leaks.
4. Drive the vehicle to increase the A/T fluid
temperature to 80° C (176° F).
5. Allow the A/T fluid temperature to fall to
approximately 65°C (149°F). Use the CONSULT-II to
monitor the
A/T fluid temperature as follows:
pic excluded.
The A/T fluid level will be significantly affected by
the A/T fluid temperature as shown. Therefore monitor
the A/T fluid temperature data using the CONSULT-II.
a. Connect CONSULT-II to data link connector.
b. Select “MAIN SIGNALS” in “DATA MONITOR” mode for
“A/T” with CONSULT-II.
c. Read out the value of “ATF TEMP 1”.
6. Re-check the A/T fluid level at A/T fluid
temperatures of approximately
65°C (149°F) using the “HOT” range on the A/T fluid
level gauge as shown. The HOT range is between 50° -
80° C
(122° - 176° F).
CAUTION:
When wiping the A/T fluid from the A/T fluid level
gauge,
always use lint-free paper, not a cloth.
To check the A/T fluid level, insert the A/T fluid
level
gauge until the cap contacts the top of the A/T fluid
charging pipe, with the gauge reversed from the normal
inserted position as shown.
7. Check the A/T fluid condition.
If the A/T fluid is very dark or has some burned
smell, there
may be an internal problem with the transmission.
Refer to
AT-176, "TROUBLE DIAGNOSIS FOR SYMPTOMS" . Flush
the transmission cooling system after repairing the
transmission.
If the A/T fluid contains frictional material
(clutches, bands,
etc.), replace the radiator and flush the transmission
cooler
lines using cleaning solvent and compressed air after
repairing the transmission.
8. Install the A/T fluid level gauge in the A/T fluid
charging pipe.
9. Tighten the A/T fluid level gauge bolt to
specification.
You're still supposed to check the level after the
fluid is warm.
While I'm not a professional mechanic I am a
mechanical engineer that has always maintained and
fixed most of my equipments. I would have rebuilt the
transmission myself if it wasn't snowing and I wasn't
busy with other projects.
__________________
'07 Frontier KC LE 4X4 Auto 4.0L 1N6AD06W87C44
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Duane_NEPA
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| Posted: Jan 17 2018 at 5:53pm | IP Logged
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Also this recommendation didn't come from a Nissan
Service Dept. It came from someone that rebuilds over
15
transmissions a week for the last 30 years.
Let's not forget that he's giving me a warranty on the
rebuild but I can't remember for how long. While I
didn't ask I got the distinct impression he didn't
want to also warranty that a radiator would not leak
and ruin his work.
So he's seen 100's of these Jatco 5R05 transmissions,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatco_5R05_transmission,
over the years. He also said he's seen brand new
radiators leak and he doesn't want to charge me to
rebuild the transmission again 2 years from now.
__________________
'07 Frontier KC LE 4X4 Auto 4.0L 1N6AD06W87C44
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Rubble
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| Posted: Jan 17 2018 at 6:35pm | IP Logged
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Duane_NEPA wrote:
Only one problem with all of that.
That's not what the
service manual says. Nowhere does the service manual
say that the engine has to be at operating
temperature.
1. Before driving, the A/T fluid level can be checked
at A/T fluid
temperatures of 30° to 50° C (86° to 122° F) using the
“COLD”
range on the A/T fluid level gauge as follows:
a. Park the vehicle on a level surface and set the
parking brake.
b. Start the engine and move the selector lever
through each gear
position. Shift the selector lever into the “P”
position.
c. Check the A/T fluid level with the engine idling.
d. Remove the A/T fluid level gauge and wipe it clean
with a lintfree
paper.
CAUTION:
When wiping the A/T fluid from the A/T fluid level
gauge,
always use a lint-free paper, not a cloth.
e. Re-insert the A/T fluid level gauge into the A/T
fluid charging
pipe until the cap contacts the top of the A/T fluid
charging pipe
as shown.
CAUTION:
To check A/T fluid level, insert the A/T fluid level
gauge until
the cap contacts the top of the A/T fluid charging
pipe, with
the gauge reversed from the normal inserted position.
f. Remove the A/T fluid level gauge and note the A/T
fluid level. If
the A/T fluid level is at low side of range, add A/T
fluid to the
transmission through the A/T fluid charging pipe.
CAUTION:
Do not overfill the transmission with A/T fluid.
g. Install the A/T fluid level gauge and the A/T fluid
level gauge bolt.
2. Warm up the engine and transmission.
3. Check for any A/T fluid leaks.
4. Drive the vehicle to increase the A/T fluid
temperature to 80° C (176° F).
5. Allow the A/T fluid temperature to fall to
approximately 65°C (149°F). Use the CONSULT-II to
monitor the
A/T fluid temperature as follows:
pic excluded.
The A/T fluid level will be significantly affected by
the A/T fluid temperature as shown. Therefore monitor
the A/T fluid temperature data using the CONSULT-II.
a. Connect CONSULT-II to data link connector.
b. Select “MAIN SIGNALS” in “DATA MONITOR” mode for
“A/T” with CONSULT-II.
c. Read out the value of “ATF TEMP 1”.
6. Re-check the A/T fluid level at A/T fluid
temperatures of approximately
65°C (149°F) using the “HOT” range on the A/T fluid
level gauge as shown. The HOT range is between 50° -
80° C
(122° - 176° F).
CAUTION:
When wiping the A/T fluid from the A/T fluid level
gauge,
always use lint-free paper, not a cloth.
To check the A/T fluid level, insert the A/T fluid
level
gauge until the cap contacts the top of the A/T fluid
charging pipe, with the gauge reversed from the normal
inserted position as shown.
7. Check the A/T fluid condition.
If the A/T fluid is very dark or has some burned
smell, there
may be an internal problem with the transmission.
Refer to
AT-176, "TROUBLE DIAGNOSIS FOR SYMPTOMS" . Flush
the transmission cooling system after repairing the
transmission.
If the A/T fluid contains frictional material
(clutches, bands,
etc.), replace the radiator and flush the transmission
cooler
lines using cleaning solvent and compressed air after
repairing the transmission.
8. Install the A/T fluid level gauge in the A/T fluid
charging pipe.
9. Tighten the A/T fluid level gauge bolt to
specification.
You're still supposed to check the level after the
fluid is warm.
While I'm not a professional mechanic I am a
mechanical engineer that has always maintained and
fixed most of my equipments. I would have rebuilt the
transmission myself if it wasn't snowing and I wasn't
busy with other projects. |
|
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j
***
"""1. Before driving, the A/T fluid level can be checked
at A/T fluid
temperatures of 30° to 50° C (86° to 122° F) using the
“COLD”
range on the A/T fluid level gauge as follows:
a. Park the vehicle on a level surface and set the
parking brake.
b. Start the engine and move the selector lever through
each gear
position. Shift the selector lever into the “P” position.
c. Check the A/T fluid level with the engine idling.""
You have to read between the line's,, unless you have an
obdii scanner that will show the ATF temperature.
The radiator is used to preheat the ATF Fluid. When the
engine is cold the ATF Fluid is not at the proper
temperature to check the ATF Level. You have to warm the
Engine up and that warm's up the Radiator Coolant,, which
in turn warm's up the ATF.
When the Coolant Gauge is at normal operating
temperature,, then the Radiator has warmed the ATF up to
the proper temperature to check the ATF Level.
With the Radiator out of the Loop then you'll need an
obdII scanner to check the ATF after driveing at 149F.
You have to use Common Sense. At Freezing temperature's
common sense will tell you that you can't check the ATF
Fluid until it has been warmed up. The Radiator
preheat's the ATF Fluid. When the Coolat Temperature in
Your Dash is at normal operateing temperature,, then the
ATF is then preheated to the correct temperature to check
the ATF Level.
With you being an Engineer,, you may need the obdII
Scanner to check the ATF Fluid Temperature to convince
yourself.
Read between the Line's and use common sense.
Good Luck
__________________
Barney
2013 SV V6 Frontier KC/AT/2WD; Previous 20 yrs ~ '93 I4 Hardbody KC/AT/2WD, Sold.
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Duane_NEPA
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| Posted: Jan 17 2018 at 6:50pm | IP Logged
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There is no need to use the engine to preheat the trans
fluid, the torque converter will do that all by itself
with no help from the radiator. You have to use common
sense. At freezing temperatures with the engine at idle
the coolant at the bottom of the radiator will only be
slightly above freezing.
Seriously all of this misinformation on the WWW.
Read between the lines and use common sense.
__________________
'07 Frontier KC LE 4X4 Auto 4.0L 1N6AD06W87C44
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Rubble
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| Posted: Jan 17 2018 at 6:58pm | IP Logged
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Duane_NEPA wrote:
There is no need to use the engine to
preheat the trans
fluid, the torque converter will do that all by itself
with no help from the radiator. You have to use common
sense. At freezing temperatures with the engine at idle
the coolant at the bottom of the radiator will only be
slightly above freezing.
Seriously all of this misinformation on the WWW.
Read between the lines and use common sense. |
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How in the World did you ever get an engineering degree.
Only by driveing will the Torque Converter Warm the ATF
Fluid.
Once the Coolant Temperature is at Normal Operating
temperature has the Radiator Warmed up the ATF.
You are argueing about something you don't know and now
that you've taken the Radiator out of the Loop, you'll
need a Scanner that will read the ATF Temperature to
properly check the ATF at 149F.
Sorry that you gambled and lost,, but you'll need the
obdII scanner with atf temperature indicator to convince
you.
Why do you think that they use the Radiator to preheat
the ATF? Because for the Torque converter to function
properly,,the ATF needs to be at the proper Temperature.
Think about it.
__________________
Barney
2013 SV V6 Frontier KC/AT/2WD; Previous 20 yrs ~ '93 I4 Hardbody KC/AT/2WD, Sold.
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Duane_NEPA
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| Posted: Jan 17 2018 at 7:35pm | IP Logged
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By letting the car sit in park the torque converter will
warm the ATF fluid even on the coldest days. That's how
it works.
I guess you missed that nowhere in that procedure did it
say that the engine had to come to operating
temperature. That's because the engine isn't used to
warm the ATF.
__________________
'07 Frontier KC LE 4X4 Auto 4.0L 1N6AD06W87C44
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Rubble
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| Posted: Jan 17 2018 at 11:12pm | IP Logged
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Duane_NEPA wrote:
By letting the car sit in park the torque converter will
warm the ATF fluid even on the coldest days. That's how
it works.
I guess you missed that nowhere in that procedure did it
say that the engine had to come to operating
temperature. That's because the engine isn't used to
warm the ATF. |
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I've explained it the best that I can. The Radiator is used to prewarm the ATF. To check in Cold Range the ATF has to be between 86F and 122F. To be at this temperature the engine coolant has to be at normal operateing temperature.
If
you crank the engine up, run it through the Gear's and then check,, it
will show low. If you fill to full,, it will be over full and run the
risk of overheating the Transmission. Won't happen over night,, but
over time.
With Radiator out of loop, then the ATF will be cold and again if filled to full will be Way overfull.
Only
way to check with radiator out of loop is to drive. Without an obdII
to check the ATF Temperature, there is no way to know what the ATF temperature is or what the Level is.
You can get an upgraded radiator at Nissan or through Rock Auto. There is also an all aluminum radiator available. If you plan on keeping your Frontier for as long as possible,, the all aluminum radiator might be a good choice.
Best to get yourself an obdII scanner to show ATF Temp, if you are going to keep the radiator out of the loop, but I've explained it the best I can to help you.
It's Your Truck, so do as you deem best,, but remember you only have 8 oz between the low and full mark to play with.
Good Luck
__________________
Barney
2013 SV V6 Frontier KC/AT/2WD; Previous 20 yrs ~ '93 I4 Hardbody KC/AT/2WD, Sold.
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Nissan Frontier Forums : Problems / Technical
Topic: Easy Trans/Radiator Fix
