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equincy10
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| Posted: May 25 2010 at 7:34pm | IP Logged
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Hello everyone. I recently bought a 2001 Frontier SE 4x4 with 190k miles. I love the truck so far and have fixed several small issues. The truck runs great with the exception of engine pinging or tinging upon heavy acceleration. I have read about some causes of this such as timing, EGR issues, etc.
The Haynes shop manual shows an EGR valve for a 3.3 v6, but I don't have one. Is the manual wrong? Are the 3.3l engines suppose to have an EGR value? Could this be the source of my probelms? What else should I check or do as I don't want this pinging to tear the engine up prematurely. Thanks for the help.
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frontierguy
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| Posted: May 25 2010 at 8:43pm | IP Logged
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Some had them, some did not. Don't know the reason, different emission levels or standards, Ca. emissions?????Do you have a code stored for the knock sensor? If it is not working, the timing won't be retarded when needed. Possibly with the miles, there is considerable carbon buildup, which increases combustion pressure. May want to run some upper engine cleaner through.
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equincy10
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| Posted: May 25 2010 at 9:25pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for that. I wondered about having the EGR or not. What do you mean about having the code for the knock sensor stored? The check engine light is not on. I can take it to a friend's shop to have him run a diagnostics check.
There is definitely a carbon buildup, in the PCV hose and the valve cover. When I bought the truck, the valve cover gaskets were pouring oil. I guess that's why the price was low. I replaced the gaskets first thing and the valves and things looked good, but the cover had carbon or dried oil on them and also the PCV valve didn't rattle much. The hose had lots of buildup in it.
I replaced the PCV valve and cleaned the hose and cover some and thought about running seafoam through it. I've read some good things about it online, but don't know anyone personally who has used it. Would it be advisable for an engine with this many miles? What would be the negatives?
Sorry for all the questions, I just want to get this truck running top notch. Thanks for the advice.
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joker
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| Posted: Jun 01 2010 at 9:36pm | IP Logged
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first thing is you have to understand what an egr does to help you engine. everyone knows that it is for engine emissions and fuel mileage. by recirculating exhaust back into the combustion chamber, the engine can 're-burn' the unburnt fuel. thats the mileage part.
the emissions are a little bit more involved. engineers are worried about 2 emissions in particular. carbon monoxide and nitrides of oxygen, or NOx. they are on opposite sides of the temperature scale.
when and engine runs rich, it is running cold which causes excessive carbon monoxide. when and engine runs lean, it runs hot and creates too much NOx. this is where catalytic converters also come in to play. the best compromise between performance and fuel economy is when an engine is running at a air/fuel ratio of 14.7 to 1, which is also when a catalytic converter is being most efficient.
so back to the egr. to help control engine temperature and emissions the exhaust is recirculated into the combustion chamber via the EGR valve. by doing this, the new air/fuel charge that is coming into the combustion chamber is being displaced by the exhaust that is also in the combustion chamber. the exhaust displaces the amount of the new air/fuel charge because it consists of an already burnt air/fuel charge. the already burnt air/fuel charge (exhaust) has no potential energy stored in it, thus is inert. by decreasing the amount of new air/fuel this actually creates a smaller combustion event and therefore less heat. less heat = less NOx.
the pinging that is being created is obviously by putting to much of a load on the engine. the knock sensor doesnt have anything to do with initial retarding of the timing, it is more of a safety. engine timing is a combination of many sensors all working together to have your engine running at its best given the situation. an engine cant sense an excessive amount of carbon build up, which would change the combustion chamber size and by doing that is creates more pressure and more heat. also with the carbon build up there will be hot spots which cause pre-ignition and detonation. an example would be lets say the combustion chamber is 50cc. the ecu would be 'tuned' to that. if there is to much carbon build up and it changes it to 45cc, the ecu wont know that. it will see all the voltages from the sensors and adjust accordingly, but for the 50cc combustion chamber that it was originally 'tuned' for, so it is not adjusting to the actual displacement. this is where the decrease in size will increase pressure and temperature and cause 'pinging' that the knock sensor will notice. the knock sensor tells the computer that it is not correct so as a safety precaution it retards the timing more than needed to eliminate pinging.
sorry for the novel but i went to trades school and engine performance and electrical really amuses me so i get carried away.
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joker
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| Posted: Jun 01 2010 at 9:42pm | IP Logged
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oh and as for the seafoam, go for it. i put it in my 92 hb and it seemed to help. it wont fix a major problem but it is always a nice tune up. put some in the tank, the oil, down the throttle body, and through a main vacuum line as per instructions. you may also want to try to put water down the throttle body. let the water DRIP into the throttle body, dont pour it in. once it is in the combustion chamber it will go through the combustion event and turn to steam and steam clean the instide of the combustion chamber. its an old mechanic trick.
one thing i wanted to try with seafoam is to put it into the engine through the spark plugs and let it sit for a while, then do the steaming cleaning thing. im thinking by doing this, the seafoam will 'soften' up the carbon and cause the steam to be more effective.
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equincy10
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| Posted: Jun 04 2010 at 9:30pm | IP Logged
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That is great information! Thanks. I did run the seafoam last weekend and it somked for miles!! Pickup was a little better after that, but didn't notice anything huge. I also changed the oil to 10-40 with lucas stabilizer. People have opinions about that stuff, but I ran it in my S-10 for years and sold that truck running great at 200K miles. Anyway, I thought maybe all of this would help and no luck.
When I accelerate hard, it sounds like bb's rolling around in the engine. I hear it while driving coming from the passenger side floor area. I just don't want it to lead to major problems. Could it be coming from the transfer case? If it is a timing problem, what should I do? Could it be the valves or lifters? They all looked good while doing the valve cover gaskets, but could they just be worn in good?
Thanks again for the great info on EGR and timing!
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kcidmil
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| Posted: Jun 05 2010 at 10:53am | IP Logged
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That's a bad area for noise to be coming from. It could just about anything, even rear end differential noise will transfer up the driveshaft and sound like it's coming from that area.
Lets narrow down the potential areas, does the sound happen when you rev the engine in park?
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equincy10
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| Posted: Jun 09 2010 at 8:18pm | IP Logged
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Thanks for the help. The rattling does not happen when I rev in park. It is only when driving and only when accelerating pretty hard. When I have my foot on the gas, but not accelerating hard (say driving on flat ground or downhill) it does not ting around.
Also, I do have a check engine light on now. I have reset it two times since I bought the truck by leaving the battery disconnected overnight. A couple days later it comes back on. I will take it tomorrow to have the code pulled and post back.
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equincy10
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| Posted: Jun 10 2010 at 9:43am | IP Logged
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Ok, so I had the code read and it is P0505 - Idle Air Control valve or circuit fault. I don't know if this could be playing into the pinging, but there it is. I am coing to make sure it is plugged up right from when I took the pelham off to change the valve cover gaskets a few weeks ago.
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joker
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| Posted: Jun 10 2010 at 9:31pm | IP Logged
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the idle air control valve will not make the engine ping. it is simply a stepper motor that controls the idle of the truck. it has nothing to do with anything when you are driving.
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Nissan Frontier Forums : Problems / Technical
Topic: Engine Pinging and EGR
